Long Story Short ★ B. CLAY MOORE
One WRITER who is determined to MAKE CRIME PAY
Today we talk with former fellow collaborator and writer, B. CLAY MOORE. He’s known for his work on such comics as HAWAIIAN DICK, MILES TO GO, LAST FLIGHT OUT of WICHITA and Endless Summer and many others. He’s a grade “A” crime writer who shares a peek into his creative world of likeable characters and terrifying antagonists.
BTP: Tell us a little bit about yourself and why you decided to pursue your career as a creative storyteller.
MOORE: As a kid, I moved around a lot, generally throughout the Midwest (despite being born in West Virginia). In fourth grade, I made some friends who introduced me to comics, and I quickly became obsessed. I was a voracious reader of anything I could find, and comics had a special appeal thanks to how much was out there to discover, and the continuity appealed to me. Like a lot of creative kids, I drew as much as I wrote, and started making up stories and characters. Moving around a few more times before high school, I took comics with me. Long after college (journalism major), I was stuck in sales and started moving toward figuring out how to make comics.
BTP: As writers go, were there specific writers in and out of comics whose work you gravitated toward? When and why did writing in the crime genre seemed to appeal to your sensibilities?
MOORE: The writers who most inspired me, in the sense that I wanted to do what they were doing, were the bigger name British writers. Alan Moore first, whose SWAMP THING and then WATCHMEN changed my entire concept of mainstream comics, followed by Grant Morrison. But the two guys who probably had the most direct influence were James Robinson and then Warren Ellis. Robinson’s STARMAN made me realize you could still build intriguing, unique worlds populated by characters you cared about, and tell deeper stories without losing the fun trapping of genre. Ellis was a master of character and relationships, and using shorthand to flesh out complex worlds and ideas.
As for crime, I think I’m just most attracted to the idea of subverting genres and using familiar tropes and scenarios to launch into new directions. Having said that, noir has always appealed to me as a vehicle to tell stories about people who become entangled in more than they bargained for by taking misstep after misstep.
BTP: Who was your first advocate or earliest mentor that helped in your pursuits?
Writer J. Torres had become a friend in the late 90s, thanks to a fan group/APA we both belonged to. J. had published a book called THE COPYBOOK TALES through Slave Labor Graphics, and when he conceived an anthology called LOVE IN TIGHTS, he asked me to participate, which turned into me co-editing several issues, and by collecting contributions from creators, assembling the issues, and getting to see how people worked, I had a pretty good introduction to publishing. J. also published a book through Image Comics, and so did Jeremy Haun, whom I became friends with through visiting our local shop in Kansas City. So that helped me get a little feel for how Image worked, and when I conceived HAWAIIAN DICK, and found co-creator Steven Griffin, I handed it to Image on a whim, along with a handful of smaller publishers.
When HAWAIIAN DICK was picked up (much to my surprise) by Image Comics, Image PR & Marketing Coordinator (now publisher) Eric Stephenson became a good friend and mentor of sorts. I ended up following him into the job when he moved up the company ladder at Image.
BTP: That’s a great pathway, considering your location in the Midwest. How do you think your environment played a part in the stories you’ve created? Had you ever considered moving to either coast for different input and inspiration?
MOORE: No. I’m not sure geographic location is that big a factor in inspiration, at least personally. But I have been exposed to a variety of environments, and moving all around exposed me to a broad enough range of people that I don’t think my personal experiences are homogenous. The Midwest has inspired particular stories partly because I think the location of centralized media often leaves parts of the country unexamined and generally underrepresented accurately.
Ultimately, I think the key factors in producing believable work are empathy and curiosity about people. Combine that with a little research into how people live their lives, and good writers can create believable characters from any walk of life, of any gender, race or persuasion. Of course, being curious about people means being willing to get to know them and listening to what they have to say.
BTP: When you originally set out to study and learn, when did your learning take place and what resources did you have available to you?
I’m not sure I’ve spent much time in my life sitting down to study and learn. Everyone’s process is different, right? What I’ve always done is taken a closer look at things I respond to, and sort of break down what about it works for me and why. So, when guys like James Robinson, Grant Morrison or Warren Ellis would blow me away with something, I’d try to process what they were doing that worked for me.
I’ve never gotten much mileage out of things like UNDERSTANDING COMICS (I understand comics, Scott), or books that lay out methods and structure. For me, the stuff that’s more helpful are books by screenwriters or authors with a more general sense of how they work, and what inspires them. I’m always drawn to discussions between creative people about what they do and why. There’s much more intuition than methodology in what I do.
BTP: There’s much to be said about intuition in creative pursuits. But without a certain understanding of structure to deliver to an editor’s expectations you could easily miss the mark. Speaking to your earlier efforts how many comic stories did you write before something was picked up? How long did it take for you to find your groove and get your first series picked up?
MOORE: The first full-length comic script I ever completed was for the first issue of HAWAIIAN DICK, with no editorial direction. That was the first thing I ever pitched to anyone. Again, having read a million comics and a million books, along with some education in creative writing and storytelling, I think I had an intuitive understanding of how a story flows, of pacing, of the rise and fall in the action.
Now, there were some things I realized after reading the issue that I could have been better at. But I think I was able to recognize that by approaching it as a reader.
It took me a long time to get comfortable with editorial input, having worked largely without an editor on my first few creator-owned books, and I realized that the editors I liked the most had the least input. There are editors who clearly want to be writing, and approach your work thinking about what *they* would do, which … no, thank you. The best editors I’ve worked with pick and choose and make suggestions based on things they’ve noticed. They don’t scour a script looking for places to make changes. And instead of telling you what they think you should do, they address the issues they see, and at the most, make suggestions that might work. The worst thing any editor can do (and has done) is change your work without telling you, or without giving you a chance to make the changes. It’s entirely possible for an editor not to touch a script, while still doing their job better than most.
BTP: When compared to your early work experience do you feel like you were well-educated to step into a role or was there a larger divide between school and actual pipeline production?
If you’re talking about the actual production of comics, the best thing that ever happened to me was breaking in by assembling an anthology and then creating a book for Image, where much of the nuts and bolts stuff was in our hands. By sheer necessity, I became good at Photoshop because I had to scan and assemble pages for the anthology, and I learned how files were delivered, how books were solicited and shipped, etc. Working for Image also gave me a lot of control over my work, which I valued and still do. Working as Image’s PR and Marketing Coordinator also helped tremendously, not only in introducing me to more people in the industry, but in interacting with Diamond and with comic retailers. Invaluable experience.
I probably wasn’t as well prepared for work-for-hire. I realized my scripts were often tailored for the artists I worked with (my creator-owned work has always been extremely collaborative). I wasn’t ready for even “Big Two” guys who needed to be told how to tell a story, or be given details I would have assumed they’d fill in on their own. Generally, I’ve always thought of the artist as the director, primarily because I assume it keeps them engaged and interested. I think visually, so I’m always sure my scripts will work as written, but I usually communicate mood and loose action, trying not to strangle an artist’s creative impulses.
BTP: Having worked with you on a couple of projects (Hawaiian Dick, Endless Summer) I can attest to your generous collaborative approach. Your scripts, at least to me, are incredibly minimalist, but say so much. I’ve always dug that about working with you. If you could, can you please share why it’s so hard to keep getting work from MARVEL and DC even if you are a published writer? What factors do comic writers have to keep in mind in order to stay employed there or heck, anywhere in comics for that matter?
MOORE: I don’t know if it’s that hard. I mean, generally speaking, if you do creator-owned work that draws attention, you’ll probably hear from a Marvel or DC editor. Likewise, reaching out to them and establishing relationships, sharing your work, is a good way to go.
Marvel reached out after HAWAIIAN DICK and BATTLE HYMN, and DC reached out just after I’d stopped working as Image’s PR guy, I think. I did a lot of work for DC, and only a handful of things for Marvel, but if I have other options and am being paid well, why would I want to work for Marvel or DC?
The main thing working for both companies did for me was help me establish relationships with editors who, once they moved on, were willing to work with me at other places.
I don’t think working for DC or Marvel is a goal that makes sense, because, yeah, factors well beyond your control will impact their decision to keep giving you work, and there are so many better options these days. If they reached out, I’d listen, because I’m a professional writer, and keeping money flowing in is part of the job, but I couldn’t prioritize them based on the hassle involved and the rates they pay. If DC would entertain allowing me to rework a favorite character in new directions, I’d be open to that. But I don’t see much of a net positive from working for those guys right now. I don’t think it does much to increase your audience, and it’s not like they’re paying more than other publishers. Less freedom, less ownership, less money.
I also don’t have any burning desire to work on particular characters, and tend to think mainstream superheroes have kind of run their course. Having said that, if DC wants to hand me a BLACKHAWK book, with free reign to revamp it, forget everything I just said.
BTP: Hahaha…yeah, I do remember your love of Blackhawk. What do you feel was missing in your education vs. the reality of the job? How would you fix this?
I can’t say there’s much that falls into that. The only real way to learn how to make comics is to make comics. I mean, I have weaknesses that I could be better prepared to overcome, but even being aware of them, I rarely do. So, you know.
BTP: There really isn’t anything more valuable than learning on the job. I’ve often bemoaned the fact that mentorship programs in the arts are sorely needed. Have you considered mentoring others or teaching what you’ve learned so far? What is it about comics that pushes you to strive to write better as opposed to say, writing a novel, screenplay, or video game?
MOORE: I’ve mentored lots of people over the years. I could point to a number of the most successful writers in comics and tell you stories of them approaching me before they broke in for advice and introductions. Having come up through Image, and having worked there (and being accessible and forthcoming), I guess I was seen as someone to connect with for advice on breaking in. If someone shows talent and intelligence, I’m always glad to help. I don’t need any public nods of appreciation for doing so, but one thing that does piss me off is being dismissed by people I’ve helped along the way. People need to consider that they’re likely to tumble back down the ladder they’ve climbed, and they may need support from people who knew them when.
I’m also close to relaunching my YouTube channel, in conjunction with my Substack newsletter, with a focus on advice and instruction. Hence the title (THE COMIC BOOK WRITER). With some input from some branding and PR folks attached to a publisher I’m working for, I’ve finally got a handle on how best to approach it. Lining up some ducks now.
Comics as a medium offers more freedom than virtually any other medium, aside from writing prose, maybe. But the process is also less time consuming and dependent on outside factors once you’re doing the job. I also appreciate that it’s a visual medium, and am always excited by the process of building worlds with talented collaborators. The end result always ends up being an amalgam that neither of us would have created on our own, and hopefully stronger for it.
BTP: That is absolutely true. As creatives we tend to have personal goals or aspirations for ourselves. What are yours and what does achieving them look like in the next 5 to 10 years?
Oh, I don’t know. I just want to keep making a living writing and creating comics. I’m always looking to elevate what I do in terms of the quality (production, storytelling, emotional impact), and I think the industry is entering a sort of golden age in terms of the format and the distribution potential. I love comic shops, and appreciate them as the backbone of the industry, but in one sense, relying so heavily on them as a source of distribution really limits the potential of the medium. It’s a readers’ medium, not a comic book fan’s medium, and there just aren’t enough shops out there to reach the masses.
Likewise, I think a reliance on Marvel and DC to buoy the industry is a bad thing. We’re always trying to pull superhero fans into broader genres, but fans of those broader genres are already reading novels or consuming other media related to them. I think the future of the industry has to be about reaching that largely untapped audience.
As to how that impacts my future, I’m always excited to be working with well-funded publishers interested in a variety of genres, and working to find new ways to get books into people’s hands, in a variety of formats. That’s the direction I plan to keep heading.
I’d also like to spend more time with prose but can’t see myself not creating original comics.
BTP: Can we do a reality check here? I realize location can dictate a lot of what people can live on, but what percentage of comic writers out there do you think are making a comfortable living doing their craft and how many books do they typically have to write per month? Have you managed to sustain yourself on writing comics alone or have you had to supplement with other things like I have?
MOORE: I’ve supplemented my income over the years, and occasionally worked a full-time job while writing, and occasionally not written at all due to personal trauma. For a few years, I was writing about one book a year, which isn’t the best way to make a full-time living. Personal drama and chaos played a large part, as well. I’ve been lucky enough to supplement my writing with option money now and then, which I consider part of the job.
I think once you’ve established yourself, it’s very possible to make a living as a comic book writer, but it’s up to you to figure out how to do it. Relying on publishers to come to you asking you to do work isn’t going to cut it. Self-publish, crowdfund, maintain relationships with publishers and keep pitching good ideas. I mean, it takes work, right?
I’ve always tried to be appreciative of the fact that I have opportunities a lot of people would kill for, and, frankly, it’s been my own fault at times for not focusing more on taking advantage of them while I let life get in the way. At current, I’m writing full-time again, and it’s up to me to get the work done to get paid. I’ll have the best year I’ve had in well over a decade and am determined to keep working toward creating new books and pursuing new avenues related to writing comics.
Don’t gloss over that “location” bit, either. I live in Kansas City, which is a major city in the very center of the country but is also vastly more affordable than a lot of places people choose to work from. I can get anywhere relatively quickly, and there’s a community here (and extending into St. Louis and even to Chicago) in which I’m rooted. If I’m making the same rate as a writer in San Diego, the one script that pays my rent and utilities, in my two-bedroom apartment with two full baths and over 1,000 square feet and leaves me enough money to eat for a month, might not cover their rent in a studio apartment. On top of that, your family life is going to dictate a lot of your ability to work. Support from your family, understanding of your weird hours and occasional need to be left alone… It’s not for everybody.
BTP: What are your biggest fears in your career currently and what are you doing to keep those in check?
My only fears are related to my own tendencies to procrastinate or not pursue things with more focus. Much of which is related to my ADHD and obsessive nature, but in terms of my career, I always feel everything is in my own hands.
BTP: We’re certainly in an era where mental health is more considered and openly talked about and I’m glad for that. It can’t be overstated that life gets in the way of life and career, and through better communication and empathy people can certainly work better together. Still, everyone’s brain style is different. Finding the right collaborators can be invaluable. In the course of your career what has been some of the best collaborative experiences you’ve had? Are there any comic con stories that fueled those experiences?
MOORE: That’s a tough question. I co-created HAWAIIAN DICK with Steven Griffin, and our creative relationship is still probably the best I’ve ever experienced, but a lot of writers wouldn’t feel the same way, due to gaps in communication (Steven is Australian), health issues, disappearances, times when the muse escaped him. But he remains one of the most relentlessly creative and adventurous people I’ve ever known, and I love the guy. I will always return to working with him if he gets himself back in a creative groove. I’ll just do so understanding things that might get in the way.
I’m currently working with British artist Mack Chater on a handful of things, and we’ve established a partnership based on similar aesthetics, influences, outlooks. Sometimes you just know that it’s going to work with someone, and you can also see how much potential they have that remains untapped. Mack is like that. He has good ideas that he doesn’t mind me kicking around, and he has good input on my ideas. And he just keeps getting better and better as we work. For whatever reason, as soon as we started building things together, it just clicked, and I knew what we were doing was good enough to attract good publishers, and it has.
I haven’t had many bad experiences with collaborators in creator-owned work. From Jeremy Haun to Tony Harris, You, Stephen Molnar, Chris Mitten, on and on. Always fun to see what we can come up with together.
BTP: Describe the perfect day for yourself. Comparatively, what would be the perfect workday?
A perfect day would be one where no one is looking for me, pestering me or making demands of me and the bills are paid. Oh, and one in which I’ve had enough sleep. With all of that in hand, I can always fill time to my satisfaction. Nothing derails me or impacts my mood more than my terrible sleep habits and fucked up circadian rhythms, which have plagued me since childhood. My sister suffers from the same issues, so let’s blame our parents.
A perfect workday is that kind of day where I also make headway on multiple things without focusing on deadlines (self-imposed or not). Which is to say, I haven’t had a perfect workday very often.
BTP: I hear that. Sleep is my #1 priority and one of the hardest to make consistent. I even wrote an article about it that I hope would help people on their journey to better sleep. Speaking of healthy habits, it’s good to see you in a better place where you can produce consistent work again. What are you excited about that you’re working on at the moment? Are there any plans to create a world like you did with Hawaiian Dick where readers can come back time and again to familiar characters and themes?
MOORE: I think somewhere in the back of my mind, that’s the goal with a lot of things I create. It’s not easy to do these days, just based on publishing models, but Mack Chater and I are working on a book that won’t be officially announced until October, and is slated to debut in January, that I feel is part of a huge world, with lots of characters and stories to tell. The publisher will announce our collaboration before San Diego, I think. That book is starting off with twelve issues, so it gives us unusual room in which to work and has made writing much easier. I’m still using lots of shorthand to introduce the world we plunge readers into, but there’s some breathing room available, as well.
LAST FLIGHT OUT OF WICHITA, which has been delayed a bit thanks largely to all of the Diamond shuffling, is a standalone story, from DSTLRY. Mack and I have other things we’re putting together, and there are definitely ideas we’d love to be able to spin into continuing stories such as you’re talking about.
I also intend to return to HAWAIIAN DICK, once I get an outstanding Kickstarter settled. Personal circumstances in my life (out of my hands) played a large part in that project being stalled out, but I’ve avoided new DICK series (despite opportunities) until it’s handled. Those personal circumstances have largely been settled, but the book was crushed by other hands interfering.
BTP: What advice would you give to your younger self regarding your life’s path thus far?
MOORE: Start earlier and put more heavy lifting into the process earlier. HAWAIIAN DICK opened many doors for me, and I probably didn’t kick them down as forcefully as I could have. I came in with guys like Robert Kirkman and Rick Remender, and they attacked the job with a different fervor than I did, despite all of us having the same basic opportunities.
Going to work for Image full-time probably delayed my growth as a creator, but it was an invaluable experience, and many of my favorite memories are attached to those Image days.
Having said that, I’ve always valued relationships and focused on good work, so most doors have remained open. Something I always try to remind myself to be grateful for.
BTP: That’s great advice. I think I suffered from not wanting to fail in public. I wanted my work to be undeniable, but that also meant I was later out of the gate. But you know, everyone finds their way through their own personal obstacles if they want it bad enough, too.
BTP: What is the most difficult thing you’ve had to do in your career and how did you make it through?
MOORE: I would say that there have been times personal issues have derailed projects and progress. I’m sure most creative people can tell you how difficult it can be to focus on work when your brain is tangled up in personal matters. For me, focusing clearly on something close to a plan and resetting with some focus was what helped the most. Remembering I always had open doors and options, and that I needed to refocus on building things in my own voice, probably helped the most.
BTP: Finding your voice is something most early creatives strive for out of the gate. But it’s my belief, living life and having many experiences are what help fuel that voice. It’ll come eventually. That’s why it’s so important to be distinct and to look beyond the expected to bring fresh fuel to any endeavor.
BTP: Thanks again, Clay, for joining us. I really appreciate your candidness and sharing of your personal experiences. Please tell people where they can find more about you and your work.
MOORE: I have a Substack newsletter:
which I’m in the process of revamping with a focus on the craft of creating comics. I’ll be tying my YouTube Channel (youtube.com/thecomicbookwriter) in with the newsletter, hopefully expanding a bit on those topics and talking to other creators about those things. I hope people subscribe to both. I’ll post links to new projects in the Notes on Substack, as well as on Facebook.
My Instagram is casual, as is my BlueSky presence. “bclaymoore” is my handle everywhere. I’ll post links there, but the algorithms
I’m also on Facebook, so feel free to follow my public feed or friend me there: https://www.facebook.com/b.clay.moore
The Substack newsletter will be my primary form of communication, but I’m sure I’ll link to it wherever I am, and drop links to announcements here and there, including Facebook.